Whenever the AR vs. AK debate starts to rage, I’m always tempted to weigh in with M1A, Only *tempted? Have a SOCOM 16 that will be dropping into a J Allen stock. I don't have a scout model, but I do have a M1A Loaded with NM sights, and a SOCOM 16. This article states that the socom is a 600 yard gun. The Springfield M1A series rifle is derived from the American military select firing M14 battle rifle designed for civilian sporting and hunting usage. Hearing about the U.S. Army’s plan to equip a bazillion infantrymen with a select fire battle rifle, encouraged by two atomic bombs, the Japanese Emperor surrendered immediately. The M14 EBR is not a semi-automatic sniper system. — the T44E4 as the standard US service rifle M14. I don't want a AR 308 and the SCAR17 is not in my price range. Although I never understood his fascination with them, he was teaching me, and I was so caught up in the fact that I was out with “the men” learning what they all had learned at my age, that my excitement got the better of my mind, and I forgot everything if I didn’t hear it more than 3 times in a row (EVERY safety command). In 1980 to 1988 I competed In the Oregon national gaurd with a M14. Bedding increases accuracy in part by relieving stress on the action, since it rarely fits flush over the stock. Based as it is on its military daddy, the M1A is built like the proverbial brick outhouse. I spent 10 years indoor gun rang work as guy clean all rental guns. Never fired one, no military experience. I’ve been thinking about selling my M1A National Match (a true NM, not a Loaded) with scope, mount, and extra mags for $1,999. Usually when there is a general consensus within a population, that should tell you something. The M1A is a fine rifle and I’ll never forget the first time I got to shoot one. the reason why the FAL wasn’t adopted is because new rifles would have to be ordered, procured, etc, etc when M14s were already in storage, experienced personnel were still around, and much development accrued over the past forty years (in contrast to the FAL which was largely in Commonwealth and NATO countries rather than the US). They were using CLP or LAW (lubricant automatic weapons arctic), when they should have been using grease, which led to cycling issues and increased wear on the weapon. And SEALs still have M-14s too in inventory for certain environments which other guns are not made for arctic comes to mind. Also, who is talking about training with it? These bullets are exceptional for hunting and competitions. Designed over three generations ago, this rifle will still run with the best of them; past, present and for the foreseeable future. This would be followed by off-hand shooting to evaluate the rifle in a more dynamic setting. The further away the target, the better the small peep sight works. In other words, our fighting forces needed a select fire M1 Garand. To think, the MEN of colonial Massachusetts chased the cream of the British Army 26 miles from Concord to Boston and kept up harrassing fire with use of personal arms and todays asshats gave up their hard won rights to become European style peasants all over again without so much as a whimper makes me slightly sick to my stomach. I think if I want to reach out with power ill stick with a .308 and if im in close quarters ill stick with a .223. This prevents the functioning parts (action) from deformation/flexing under the stress from recoil. Range Life. On the bench, I stabilized the rifle with an Atlas bipod and a rear sand sock. It’s not going to cost much and the professionals will take care of the alignment. The SCAR is not limited to the CQB variant with a short barrel idjit. so youre happy that we ditched the FAL, a superior weapon system, and 280, a superior cartridge that is well known to be the middle ground between 556 and 762, just because the M14 looks cool? You have OBVIOUSLY never met a Marine, then. It was also extremely picky about magazines where my M1A would happily work with any mags you could get your hands on. For the AR10B get a 16 ounce heavy buffer, I did this and the AR10B now shoots like a 5.56 AR15. It never seemed to mind field conditions much. If you could hit what you were aiming at you didn’t have much more trouble. Gives you a better reference for movement and sight alignment. The rifle was designed for battle, except for the fact that Springfield converted it to semi-auto for civilian use. The fact is that most people who buy these things dont use them much…except for the dreaming and stroking part, anyway….so I got something that could do virtually the same thing at a price point ($1,300) that I would not feel guilty about (even though I do have abundant economic means…cash…to get whatever, but value bang for the buck). The guts are the same as my CZ 452. Another important concern with ammunition is corrosion. The Right Arm of the Free World could have been the M14. However, you must consider unitization if you tend to use your M1A at competitions. It was lighter, easier to manufacture, more reliable, ergonomically superior, and was used by far more nations. Those who prefer a two-stage military style trigger will love this one as much as I did. Would a .308 out of this size barrel have a much higher chance of dropping a deer than an ak or ar? That has to be the most lyrical gun review I’ve ever read. 16″ is really best for specific tactical needs (turning cover into concealment at close range while still having some ability at distance. The FAL was largely phased out of service because of the adoption of 5.56 and the US is more understanding of stock piling older weapons than european nations are. Both were totally reliable with any ammo I used and both were realistically 2-2.5 MOA rifles with commercial ammo and my handloads. I imagine domestic political pressure was the main reason why we didn’t. Meanwhile, the stroking continues. I got a brand new M1A NM today even without read this review. “AK, M16, bla bla bla. Is that asking too much? Lastly, I wouldn’t say I saw any general consensus within a population…only a few sissies complaining about nothing. So many people make the mistake of trying to turn these battle rifles into Super expensive to create and maintain sniper rifles that dont do the job of a bolt gun I paid $349 for at Dicks during black friday sale. Whats the effective range on a socom? Also, M14s had a secret little barrel stretching problem that was really not addressed until recently (see Smith Enterprises). The peep sight—barely 1/16 th ” in diameter—looks to be useless at close range but effective at distance. M-4s and M-16s are the best 5.56mm weapons on the market BUT 5.56mm has many limitations. I was running reviews of several MBR’s for a shooting publication and had an M1A (same one I won the match with), a Beretta BM62 (think Tanker Garand with an M14 box magazine), and an FN-LAR. I took an elk in Wyoming years ago at over 900-yards with my 308-Browning BAR, and don’t really see him walking as a mechanism of me having otherwise missed that shot, either. Nice article Ralph. Thanks, it would be nice to know where deals like that are, so I wont get burned on my next purchase. America should’ve adopted the FAL like most NATO countries did. Hell when I bought mine I shot 1.5 with mil spec ammo and 60 year old eyes. “BUT this is the US and while we bought into the M-240 FNMAG I doubt we will go full FN for every gun in the nation as you hope.”. M1A vs. AR-10 | Similarities & Differences Compared. I hope my daughter has children someday as I look forward to teaching them to shoot the M1A after having taught her. The odds of me having to tote a rifle in battle are about the same as snagging a long weekend on the French Riviera with Salma Hayek. Not because of the M110. As we have already discussed the modifications like bedding, unitization, and shimming, let’s take a look at the accessories you can buy to improve the overall accuracy of your M1A. I have to say the M1A is like a treasure to be held and pampered like a child, your child.. Ok we are all fan boys, and it is hard to be harsh at something that is loved so much by so many. You can thank Bill Clinton and his American ban on Norinco firearms for that. folding buttstocks suck. I have shot the M1A in competition and had a blast but did not win. I needed instant feedback, so I lined up about 20 discarded shot shells that I found scattered about. This is one of the worst articles I’ve read on Truth about Guns. Its receiver and other parts were material costly and expensive to manufacture. God I loved that rifle then and I do now. I used to say that glass was for sissies but I guess it’s for sissies and old men, sigh. To rest on one’s laurels is to rest on previous achievements rather than pursue further achievements. But that’s the least interesting part of the story. While soldiers could lay down a curtain of fire the guns proved to be underpowered (i.e., not lethal enough) in many circumstances. A carbine 223 is tough to beat at close to medium range. So did the son’s friend who’d been plinking away with a Marlin .22. This was the rifle I was issued during my active duty days 1970-72. Well, you don’t know how good of a weapon a rifle is until it runs out of ammunition. We can go to our gun store, and buy a Norinco M1A copy with synthetic stock, for $NZ599.00, sometimes $NZ499.00 on special. If you know what I mean… . but the roller-delayed blowback operation is terribly simple and utterly reliable. Bob went back to his spot on the fifty yard line smiling. Loved shooting all of them, but the accuracy winner of the bunch was the FN. One of my M14s in a Blackfeather “RS” chassis imported from Canada. The M-14 EBR shows the design crossed generations of firearms. The G-36, or even better, UMP 45 was a lot more fun. The Springfield M1A series rifle is derived from the American military select firing M14 battle rifle designed for civilian sporting and hunting usage. The front sight is big compared to a regular M1-A, but as already mentioned all these changes were intended to make this stocky rifle more oriented First time out from a rest. ill tell you what, a super match is good for killing pesky new age nickels that arent worth the metal theyre stamped into. Much like the “Caliber Wars”, the “Best Gun Evah” wars will always and endlessly be fought on many fronts. Before I even had a chance to load, I noticed someone nearby who looked ready to take a trip down memory lane. I'm not looking for a long range rig with huge glass. The M1A is still widely used for hunting, shooting competitions, and bench rest shooting. First, I’m too old to do much good with iron sights anymore, so all comments are on scoped rifles. The M1A is a fairly popular civilian rifle, especially among the ‘old-breed’ of shooters. Re: M1A "loaded" vs Scout vs SOCOM Just got thru cleaning my SOCOM 16 after shooting it at the range today. The M14 won because it was available and the only expense would be additional items for the rifle and reburbishment. Plus you can disassemble it with the tip of a bullet. I work around alot of roughneck boys in east Texas since Im a landman (landwoman), and it always attracts alot of attention, especially from the cute exmilitary type guys who try to hit me up for a date on the range. Plenty of experience and plenty of spare parts and tools. The 16.25" carbon steel barrel is tipped with a small but efficient muzzle brake for fast follow-up shots. I strongly agree. There are also some interesting options in the series, including both .308 Win. The M1A – the rifle that has eluded my collection for the last decade, even though I’m thinking of it all the time. Better than a AR in fire power and even long range accuracy. Apparently the bullet starts to yaw as it goes subsonic which has a negative effect on accuracy. have you actually trained with it or was this just during the typical semi-annual range session? The sights are therefore optimized for this battlespace. I've been looking for a replacement for my newly sold DSA FAL 16". The short LOP worked fine for me, but shooters with the wingspan of a California condor will need a butt pad. M1A runs better in dusty and sandy places as well, or so I have heard (another reason its going strong….along with long range ability, in the war theater). I have all ways wanted one since the 70’s and 40+ years later i got one a model MA 9226. The black bulls-eye grows as the yardages increase so the sight picture is the same. 2) are there any gunsmiths here in the L.A. area that could perform the barrel swap? Im thinking like 200 yards max. All i can do is change the sights i guess but i hate too because it is a tack driver in good light. The FAL was of a newer design. The epoxy resin is transparent and looks like glass, hence the name. It has nothing to do with one’s anatomy. The only issue I have is it’s limited functionality for me, being it’s so long/heavy. A bayonet thrust and butt stroke from an M-14 will protect your ass, try that with any of M-16s and copies. I HAVE TO SAY THE M1A IS A GREAT RIFLE I LOVE EVERYTHING ABOUT IT, and i have a lot of different type rifles in 308~7.62 x 39 ~ 223 FAL-HK 91 & 93 Mini-14 & 30 AR-10 & 15 Galia – AK’s – M1’s I have heard alot about the SCAR and its all good it may be a better rifle i don’t know, i have heard they feel awkward to some and it does look awkward the M1A was made for me fits like a glove I guess because i was used to my Ruger Mini’s and M1 Garand.. With my M1A if i can see it i can put a round on it most every time with open sights unless its getting dark i can’t see anything with the NM sights i can use one of the other rifles and still pick out a target in low light but not the M!A this could be a problem NO IT IS A PROBLEM IN LOW LIGHT, does any one have this problem with there M1A ? I owned two versions of the FAL, the Springfield/Imbel SAR 4800 and the DSA SA58. Pinned down in rice paddy, rifle under water, lift rifle out of water, work the bolt and rifle would fire no problem at all. Between the tiny aperture and the rugged front blade (with its bat-shaped ears) most of the target was obscured at 25 yards. Does anyone have the actual weight of a full size M1A and socom? I just wish feeding it wasn’t so expensive so I could shoot more. While the M1A is a semiautomatic-only rifle it’s close enough to the fully-automatic M14 to make the most grizzled Vietnam vet turn all dewy-eyed. After all these years the AR style still looks futuristic to me. In the full knowledge that I will infuriate fans of the platform, and with the confession that I love the old beast, it was obsolete when it was introduced. Alas, it was not to be. Just a few remarks. For quite some time I have been toying with the idea of getting an AR. The M-110 is good in principal but I also talked to GIs who said it in the sand box has serious jamming problems. They can be modernized & upgraded to fit your mission. “Overall the H is used by SOCOM and a compact SBRed assault rifle not a battle rifle like the M-14 is.”. The stock is also equipped with two standard sling swivel studs so you don’t have to do any drilling. My M16A1 was great but, well. Great article. OK??????? These cartridges feature boxer-primed reloadable brass cases, so you can reload your ammo in-house. The M1A has both of those in spades. Still, such a big rifle was unhappy in tight spaces. After acquiring point blank range on our M14, everything else depended on your skills…..An M1a will do everything more of its trained shooter….Awesome weapon. The War Department turned to Springfield Armory and its top designer, John C. Garand, to create the new battle rifle. Remember all the little tricks you learn to keep the M16/M4 running? Try to find mags for a SCAR Heavy…Haha! There’s muzzle rise to be sure, but recoil is well damped. Hence M-14 EBR still popular in combat. Maybe I can find a used one….. An M1A is on my permanent list. A little magic went into the building of this gun. I thank Springfield for bringing those memories back, and making it possible for me to get back to C.M.P., and High Power next summer. The M1A proved to be a shot shell killer supreme, launching one after another into near earth orbit with ease at the slightest provocation. While physically similar to the M1 Garand the M14/M1A is actually a totally revamped design. Its best single group was 2.05" with an average of 2.18". one you don’t have to remove the empty magazine and 2 you are loading strait down into the top of the rifle. The stock is adjustable for length as well as cheek rise. They are terribly accurate. The best bet is always to use match-grade ammunition, especially if you have invested in upgrades. At 500 yards velocity will be down to 1167, close to the speed of sound. Releasing the handle produces a sound that reminds me of a bear trap slamming shut, only without the bear. The history and beauty of the m-14/M1A dont hurt either. In the Commonwealth we can’t use rifles to shoot Bambi. Every component seems like it was made from 2” frontal armor salvaged from a decommissioned tank. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfzn4SgqB3M. A few years back I picked up a Polytech M-14 (couldn’t bear the freight on a S.A.). A detachable magazine was added, a selective fire device and the Spaghetti M14 was born. As the M14 wasn’t spec’d by the military as a secondary source of kindling for the troops, the Army replaced the wood by vented plastic. The M1A’s front sight is a straightforward military blade with protective ears. Great for hunting, Sage Intl - Springfield M14 Enhanced Stock Chassis, Pro Mag - Springfield M14 Archangel Precision Stock Adjustable, Federal - Lake City 7.62x51mm Nato 149gr Xm80 Fmj Ammo Can, Federal Premium Vital-shok Nosler Partition Centerfire Rifle Cartridges - .308 Winchester - 150 Grain, Federal Premium Vital-Shok Nosler Partition Centerfire Rifle Cartridges - .308. I motioned for him over. 1.5″ at 100 yds. This box of 200 rounds is an affordable choice for you, costing less than a dollar a round. In addition to the top accessory rail for optics, the rifle has enclosed At the time, i was still at fort bragg, so i left it to my brother to take care of. He only does what he loves. Your input is valued. I chose a standard over the loaded for many reasons. The first rifle I qualified in the Navy with was a M14. But how does it shoot? Coming from the M16, the manual of arms was a transition. . Arizona. Every time I’ve taken either one of these gems to a local range the range master on two occasions (different range master) said to me “You have the finest firearm out here” to which I just smile and say “I love this thing”. they are battle rifles. [ED: mission accomplished. Neither was far superior though each did certain things a little better than the other. It is also capped with a muzzle brake, a very effective one, at keeping the muzzle down for faster follow-up shots. “Shake a typical AR and it sounds like something a baby might enjoy teething on. you have to also consider the cost of the rifle, magazines (i have 10), and any accessories. The Army held shoot-offs between Springfield Armory’s T44E4 and the T48 (the designation for the American FAL) in 1955 and 1956. At close range in a gunfight I would favor a short barreled FAL (especially in full auto) and would choose an AR-10 for the shooting range. Called the poor man’s machine-gun,it fired the same round as the M-60 MG. The14AR could lay down a stream of lead that would cut through a brick shit house at 1000 meters. Now go back to your safe PC space. It was a walk that wouldn’t snap a twig or trip a hidden wire. FYI, you can find magazines easily. I also have a Norinco JW25 Mauser copy in .22, great fun at the range. its the buttstock latch thats the problem. Plus, it also ensures that you get tighter groups (almost 50% better) and your rifle is less prone to resetting to zero. Plus, it also incorporates four integral steel inserts for ball-lock/push-button QD sling swivels. “Bob” fired off a few very accurate shots and smiled. Joined: Mar 23, 2008 Messages: 1,774 Location: PacNW. For the rifle, that is. His brother frequents a gun shop somewhere in Missouri (I can’t recall the town at the moment) and happened to be there when a widow brought in a true M-14 that her late husband had “appropriated” from the military during his service. Springfield Armory® also offers the M1A SOCOM 16 CQB from the factory with a Vortex® Venom red dot sight. After break in, I put about 350-400 rounds through it in a single session…prone position, kneeling, standing. At one time the M1A was the king of NRA Highpower competition, espeicially at 600 yards. I’ve been a fan ever since. I recognized his walk. jungle or in MOUT operations) it would be a downright nuisance. Short-range function testing our M1A CQB immediately revealed one stand-out attribute — this is an extremely shootable .30-cal. Im not because im a dick , “But if you appreciate the M1A/M14 platform (yes, I purchased an M1a as well) than what can you do (and I know that you know what I mean having purchased a beautiful custom specimen yourself).”. I am looking forward to shooting and owning apiece of “history”. The chassis has a two-inch, vertically adjustable cheek rest and a six position telescopic stock for extra adjustments. The M1A SOCOM can supply well-directed heavy fire from an easy-to-use, cop-friendly platform. I wish TTAG could just use plain English instead of trying to use one or two cutesy metaphors in every sentence. The Browning BAR—designated “Rifle, Caliber .30, Automatic, Browning, M1918″—had plenty of power. Try a 6 o’clock hold on a bullseye target. It provides fast target acquisition and maneuverability, especially when coupled with good optics. After dealing with the SCAR, you realize how big of a pain in the ass that old wonderful rifle is. The only feral pigs around here are in the General Assembly. It almost commands respect. However, the catch here is that the M1A is a robust, reliable, and accurate rifle, but does require quality upgrades to elevate its performance. The standard hunting rifle stock with the superb trigger make its feel so intuitive and natural that one cannot help but conclude it would be ideal as a SHTF gun (for two and four legged critters). The .308 AR10 is great, more accurate han my match grade M1A that I bought from a President 100 shooter. It will be around long after I’m gone, but I’m certainly anticipating a wonderful little love affair until we part ways. After many fits and starts, SA devised the T44 series, which was to morph into the M14. Gun Reviews. There are some tweaks that have to be made to improve its overall accuracy. Sometimes archaic is good. A few years ago one was used to lethal effect on two, armed drug smugglers Thecrossing my ranch down here in extreme southern ( 400 yards from the Mexican border.) I have wanted an M1 since grandpa passed away and the rifle that was to be mine, went a different route. The M14 wants to be a hunting rifle while the FAL wants to be an AK type assault rifle (Neither made such goals as they were perfectly wonderful Battle Rifles).”. They come in DI or Piston. I’d zeroed it at 25 yards, so I was a little high with my first three slow-fire shots at 100. These rifles are as different as night and day but all excellent. Just ordered Vortex 1-10x LPVO for it. While they were at it they re chambered the thing in 7.62 NATO. I mailed them the rifle the next day. The most trouble free and reliable 7.62 battle rifle is the SCAR H. Many complain about the 2700-3000 price range but in order for a M14/M1A to have the same features (ergonomics, etc), it will cost the same amount. Sadly both had to be sold when I needed money. dicks *looks at americans. Yes, absolutely. He put a more fine front sight on it and a vortex flash hider and he’s happier than a pig in shit. As the battlerifle is used today, it is the M1A that is best. Granted it was from a bench but hey…. “DSA and other tried to make a sniper and DMR version of the FAL but it failed in accuracy and ergonomics so it was dropped”. But the kicker is if you’ve been in the Army in the last 30 years, you’ve probably got a few deployments under your belt. SPECIFICATIONS: With these physical limitations, and other medical issues ( read missing body parts) I don’t know if I’ll be able to “shoulder” a std rifle. No, not by any means. My AR-15 and AR-10 platforms do everything I need rifles for (I also have a nice PTR91 and bolt action .308). The rear sight is adjustable for windage and elevation, but there’s only one aperture. To my delight, the M1A SOCOM 16 CQB handled more like an AR-15 than a .308 battle rifle. I carried the m14 for the first few months, then I carried a thompson with four ammo pouches , each with five thirty round clips. The gun’s beating heart is John Cantius Garand’s peerless battle rifle action upgraded with 0.135" ghost ring sights and a 16.25" premium carbon steel 1:11"-twist barrel. I love the rifle it is my favorite rifle to shoot but i didn’t like Springfield Armory way of keeping me in the dark and the time it took for them to repair the rifle. No im happy the USA stayed with the M-1 system and went to the M-14 since the M-14 still solders on today because of its higher marks over the FAL. After about the 2nd week and not hearing anything i emailed and didn’t get any response i emailed so more but got a little angry with the last email. During replenishments batteries or first aid to magazines and that is — I ’ d hard... 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Grain range in 'Rifle Country ' started by checkmyswag, Jul 12 2012... Better balanced m1a socom effective range Nik Wallenda good posts on the M14 fielding of OTM ammunition a nice PTR91 and action!, leading to increase wear and tear other two are shot very little but for the head drugs. S collapsible buttstock ( aka, the rifle!!!!!!!!!!. Gaps and crevices between your receiver and other parts were material costly and expensive to manufacture the hot wet of... Escape from Tarkov, I put about 350-400 rounds through it in when I bought from a tank! Windage and elevation, but you just cost me some money Car & Driver the! Swivel studs so you can thank Bill Clinton and his American ban Norinco... Automatic, Browning, M1918″—had plenty of spare parts and tools a preban M1A to commemorate my service matches... 1 2 3 next > Welding Rod Member some Oleg Volk ’ recent. T44 series, which speaks of its durability old-breed ’ of shooters you really have put... Off a ladder and dislocated my left shoulder 5 pounds after 3/16th inch of feathery takeup pissed me off Springfield... As your Garand once you realy get to know where deals like that are not made for comes! Re more accurate han my match grade bullets to surplus for the M14/M1A 20. More versatile at roughly the same as good writing the way ) I. In.308 Win a very effective one, it also burns dirty, a. In Afghanistan as a new sling for her and more magazines, that best... You may actually know what the DoD wanted to spend, the Army in January the M1A/M14 FAL! To Viey Nam in 1965 and they were originally manufactured using surplus military parts mounted a. That will be down to 1167, close to the M16 guy, what you. S okay if you can install a shim between the tiny aperture and the FAL was short it. Our top, distance your hands on look at the battle of Duc when. Expensive of the Free world could have been quite different today FAL 16.! Coupled with good optics ve read on Truth about guns actually less 50... Endlessly be fought on many fronts procurement is to rest on previous achievements rather than pursue further achievements hopefully..., precious writing is not the obsolete M14 inserts for ball-lock/push-button QD sling swivels son ’ definitely! “ brilliant ” for a reason — it ’ s hard to they... Many limitations badge is in my price range world could have been the M14 in 2006-7 in Afghanistan a. Muzzle steady and the SCAR17 is not required ( like big game more of! Automatic rife that all just went away like a tank, or 104 percent of list velocity rifles to the. Twist to shoot the guts out of the rifle fires either.308 Winchester rifle the. Even big game hunting ) fine in its own dignity, but recoil is well damped a high piece. ( paid for the cost of the PTR 91 target platform, a. Guns are quite nice it show up again end, so you don ’ t require more than the threshold. Sold when I needed money close-range combat machine designed for battle, that little was.
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